
The Round table has a few new faces throwing in their 2 cents. Thanks again as always to ye brave knights. Thanks too for the emails I get from guys who appreciate the round table layout. Our goal was to keep this user friendly and not turn it into a complex list of fancy words that confuse the layman. It seems to be working.
Anyways lets kick it all off -
INTERSWEAT -
"How beneficial would you say Olympic lifts are for the average guy in the gym or the new guy?"
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RHEINALLT - A qualification – I love the Olympic lifts, I love performing them, and I love what they can produce in an athlete. However the average guy has enough trouble performing the basic lifts properly, lacks the dynamic flexibility and glute function to squat and deadlift effectively and the shoulder health to press properly. Chuck in some self taught cleans or snatches and at best they’re wasting time lifting too light a weight for too many reps, and at worst they’re reinforcing dysfunction or hurting themselves and possibly others around them.
Watch elite weightlifters in the flesh and the movement is lightning fast, jaw dropping, the average guy doesn’t have the strength, let alone the ability to express it that quickly; anyone who’s tried teaching Olympic Lifts will be able to tell you how frustrating it is (even teaching elite athletes) – most people cannot move that quickly!
Consider also that most gyms don’t have bumper plates and don’t allow dropping the weight – which if you’re lifting any appreciable weight is a necessity.
In short I would recommend the average guy work on his squats and deadlift and by work, I mean perform them perfectly, using the right muscles at the right time.
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ED ACHE - The benefits of the Olympic lifts for the average gym goer or the nubie aren’t worth the time it takes to learn them. For me, that time would be better spent doing lifts that would benefit their training.
If they play sport, however, then its well worth them investing the time (and money) to learn them properly, they will increase their explosiveness and overall strength. See when you play sport it’s all very well being strong but if you can’t develop that strength in a given time frame then it’s pretty much useless. That’s where the Olympic lifts come in, the plyometric element to them helps increase the rate at which you can produce force.
What most people overlook (me included) is that Olympic lifting is a sport in itself so the chances of you leaning to do them with correct form without proper coaching is pretty slim. I’m currently spending 4 sessions a week trying to work on my snatch form, I’ve had coaching from some pretty clever people and that’s helped no end. But I’m probably getting 1 in 25 with passable form, as soon as you put more weight on the bar it becomes very unforgiving. If you want to learn how to do them find yourself a decent coach and go from there, I’m happy to look though any videos people send me and tell them where to improve their Olympic lifts.
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D* - For the new guy, not great. They don’t have the technique or confidence to pull off what are pretty complicated moves. The risk of injury is too high – they don’t have the tendon strength, flexibility and stabilising muscle support to perform them properly. Add to that most gyms just aren’t set up for them, and it’s not a recipe for success.
For someone with a few months training under their belts, I think they are an excellent tool for all purposes. I’m not talking about 1RM efforts, but rather multiple, low rep sets. The conditioning and power benefits are immense.
I’m not convinced all Olympic lifts have their place in a commercial gym, but there’s no reason that all variations of the clean and press can’t be incorporated. Also, dumbbell versions of these Olympic lifts are safer and can be carried out with minimal instruction.
The benefits of carrying out lots of clean and pressing include improved grip strength, development of minor stabilising muscles, improved aerobic conditioning and generation of power. These things translate directly through to many sports, and anyone participating in football or rugby would see improvements in their performance by including C&Ps in all their variations.
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TENTIGERS - Never really done them to any great extent, so i don't think they are necessary as such for the average guy or new guy.
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GABZ - It would depend on what their goals where. Explosive power is useful in a lot of sports, but many Olly lifts are very technical and take a long time to get any serious weight on if, like me, you're not very coordinated. Kettle bells have a lot of the same benefits but are a lot easier to learn.
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WOLF - For a beginner, I would not recommend Olympic lifts, I would advocate concentrating and good form with the big 3 lifts, keep it simple and you can't go wrong.
When you have some experience of weightlifting, and how your body works to do different things, I would say now is the time to decide whether Olympic lifting is suitable for you. I don't believe it is suitable for everyone, and it will be up to the individual whether Olympic lifting will help them achieve their goals.
If your goals are pure strength, fitness, power, being a good Cross fitter, just getting in shape, having a functional body, then I think Olympic lifts could be beneficial for you. I'll leave other honorable members of the round table to advise on these goals as they have more experience than me. I shall talk about what I know, or what I have made it my mission to know as much about as possible. That's building a balanced, symmetric, muscular physique. Pure aesthetics.
For this aim, I don't believe that Olympic lifting is beneficial. Olympic lifting is all about being functional, fast and powerful, none of which matters if you want to look good in your swimming trunks. Olympic lifting won't build more muscle than a proper bodybuilding routine (it will probably build less) in fact the only time at which I may consider it would be on a cut, but I would have doubts as to whether my hard earned muscle mass would be adequately maintained without the calculated muscle stimulation of a bodybuilding program.
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LION'EL JACKSON - To begin, first we must realise just how technical, and how difficult Olympic lifts are to perfect. The amount of coordination, core-strength, speed and agility required are enormous, and that's without even getting into the overall strength aspect of the lifts. For a newbie to perfect this, he/she would require many, many hours of coaching and monitoring, as well as adequate rest periods and correct nutrition. This may be something that is out of reach of the average guy.
I'd like to use an analogy. I personally think that it would be akin to telling a person on their first driving lesson, to drive through the town centre and then out onto the dual carriageway. There's a lot of risks involved due to the lack of experience and adequate coaching, and someone could get seriously hurt.
In the time that's spent perfecting the technique, the newbie could have learnt how to perform all of the standard compound lifts correctly, and could be increasing the weight. The Olympic lifts (snatch and clean and jerk) would have to be performed on a low weight, if any weight at all initially, for the technique to be perfected. This would limit the amount of HGH released. We must also realise that many of the average newbies that walk into a gym are there for one reason: to build muscle. Olympic lifts are not for muscle gain, they are for explosive and 'functional' strength.
So in conclusion, no, I don't believe that Olympic lifts are something that should be incorporated into a newbie's routine, as I do not feel it would be beneficial.
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MYSTERY GUEST - Not at all, for Olympic and pro athletes with time and coaching at hand in the weight room they can spend the time need to learn the lifts effectively, plus they have the space and plates to do so, this is a luxury the average gym goer does not have. There are plenty exercises that can be adapted to ensure high rate of force development that the Olympic lifts bring.
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NEILS 'ROUND TABLE' ROUND UPHanding a barbell to an average gym goer and getting them to perform Oly lifts is like picking Edward scissor hands to be on your team for a water bomb fight - fecking useless.
First off - the Oly lifts are the
Snatch and the
Clean and Jerk. (Power lifts are the back squat, bench and deadlift. It is a bit stupid that powerlifting is named powerlifting when in reality power equates to speed and you could do the powerlifts as slow as you like . . anyways . . )
I wont go over what the guys have covered in detail so I will just list the things that put me off using these 2 lifts.
1 - Technically fecking difficult.
2 - Time required to learn could be spent elsewhere.
3 - Average gym is poorly equipped.
4 - Average gym goer is dysfunctional*
* If you cannot perform a squat or deadlift correctly then you should not be trying the Oly lifts or their variations. If you have an imbalance and combine that with poor lifting technique at speed you will end up injured - not cool.
Better alternatives -
1 - Jumping.
2 - Kettlebells
3 - Powerlifts
4 - Thai bo (yeah Im joking)
Why are these better alternatives? Its super easy to jump. Kettlebells are great for teaching you how to work the hips. Powerlifts from a coaching point of view are much easier to teach as you can stop the client at any stage and reinforce technique. One thing I would say is that adding in variations of Oly lifts are great fun but again these require supervision. Powercleans, for example, are a great lift but again not much use if your spine looks like Robin Hoods bow.

If your back looks like this mid deadlift - you're fecked.
If you are going to get explosive with variations get them in early in your routine. Nothing like some clean and jerks after an hour of legs to give you the sudden urge to visit the physio.
To come back to the average gym goer they dont know how to activate muscles. Take a guy who has been training by himself for 6 months and you can almost guarantee that he has been following a machine based split routine the whole time. His chest and upper traps will be dominant. His stabilisers will be fast asleep. His back will have had less work than a school teacher in July and his grip strength will be weaker than an MP's expenses form. All in all the average gym goer should be moving body weight and dipping his toes outside of the saggital plane.
To wrap it up. Leave Olympic lifts for the Olympians!
PS - I will add a list of round table entries and relevant MH discussions to a side bar in the very near future.
To check MH for round 5 discussions just
click me.